Comments on: 我愛高鐵

By: ngszehin

ngszehin — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:01:42 +0000

Very simple. You are mixing “tax payer’s benefit” with “tax payer’s money” into one thing. Of course you could put a dollar sign on the value. But, maximizing future value doesn’t mean that we could spend the cash on hand carelessly. Two different things.

With your concept, there is no need to have law and order because everything could be judge by executive order on the “need” basis.

By: Potato

Potato — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:10:45 +0000

I don’t see why approving the funding for XRL now is loosening the criteria of safeguarding the tax payers’ money, given that you agree that we need to build the XRL as soon as possible. Please remember even if the FC has approved the funding, the MTRC will still need to go through a worldwide tendering procedure to select contractors for each type of works and firm up with the construction costs (that’s the reason why the final construction cost of the West Rail was less than the amount of funds approved by the FC). Could you explain or give your evidence.
Since I think it is high time to start the construction of XRL, I am of the view that delaying the funding approval will undermining the future return of our XRL (as I explained earlier) and is in fact NOT SAFEGUARDING the TAXPATERS’ MONEY.

By: ngszehin

ngszehin — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:12:38 +0000

Thanks for the link. Yes, I also got the info (that I replied Eddy Lee above) from this link.

The history of the discussion was long, but in fact even in 2004 it was still a concept. The name was like “區域快線” or “磁懸浮列車運輸系統”.

KCR was invited to study this at 2004. The updates in 2005 and 2006 were all quite prelim. The first real result of “STUDY” was released on 2007 about the possible solutions and their pros and cons. So, no, the discussion was not already around for 10 years (although the topic itself was).

Again, exactly like what 鄭汝樺 always says, different project has different factors to be considered. So, it is hard to judge if the fund is well spent or not in this project based on the benchmark of the other projects (and I didn’t say other project like the TST South is money well spent or not). All I know is each of the projects should be examined in detail before the budget is to be released.

And yes, I agree we should build the high speed rail ASAP. But the urgency of the project is not the excuse to loosen the criteria of safeguarding the tax payers money.

By: Potato

Potato — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:52:44 +0000

08年中政府的估算造價是395億。這個價未計算通脹因素。08年的文件都有話，如果以包括通脹因素的付款當日價計算，估算造價是440億。現在的造價550億是以包括通脹因素的付款當日價計算。比08年的報價貴了110億。增加25%。
至於造價太高的問題，香港工程費用一向高。1996年(13年前)批出的西鐵預算是640億。雖然後來因為亞洲金融風暴及通縮，埋單是400多億(但現在我們可以假設通縮嗎?)。另地鐵西港島線，三公里長的預算是150多億。東鐵延線由紅磡到尖東一公里長，埋單是41億。這些貴價鐵路我們都認為值得，為何高鐵這樣具策略價值的基建項目會是貴?

討論是需要時間。但都討論十年了。請Blog主細閱下面條link的文件吧。
http://www.legco.gov.hk/database/chinese/data_tp/tp-regional-express-line.htm

況且，國內的高鐵網絡會在2015年大致建成(武漢至深圳在今年年底都會駁通了)。如果到時我們的香港段還未建好，所有有利的發車時段和班次都會給國內其他城市佔用了。這會減低我們高鐵段的效益。所以，就算拖，也不能拖延太久，因為建造需時，不是今天通過撥款，明天就會變出一條高鐵。現在才動工其實已經是遲了。

By: Leonard Sze-Hin Ng

Leonard Sze-Hin Ng — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:07:09 +0000

多謝你的留言。我說我欣賞的，正是如你我這樣的討論。以前的時代，我們怎會說這些咁「高呢」的話題？（你真係好有心，寫完一段，轉頭回來還加上數據！）

我不知道到時熱血青年有什麽反應。我自己不是熱血青年，也不能代表他們。

但我個人認為沙中線以近半價錢(約374億)，有9個車站，cover 300,000 本地人口每日交通。容易被支持。

不過這也不是高鐵與高鐵最主要的分別。我由始至終的問題都是審批價錢上的疑惑。零八年四月的高鐵文件中，高鐵估價是395億。現在的造價變成550億，另現加百多億非鐵路工程費用。議員審批時，是否應該小心留意並質詢這些差價才批錢？（我從申，我從來都是喜歡有高鐵，但只是不支持議員不細心批錢）

沙中線反而透明度高得多。早在兩鐵合拼前已有大把討論。現在的走線、站位已是更新過很多次的版本，反而爭議較少。當然，現在沙中線那三百幾億是以「基本工程儲備基金」撥出，避過立法會財委會（但個別工程計劃仍會匯報財委會工務小組）的審批，所以不會那麼容易吸引社會目光。